Germany v England Thread

[Biff]

I'm embarassed to be English. What a total joke, I thought Iti's were meant to be defensive, but our defence was non existant. We had defenders going on sorties up front with no cover and there was always a massive gap for the Germans to exploit. It may have been different if the Lampard goal was given as we may not have chased the game and been caught on the break, but we were shit from the start. It seemed like the players were too nervous and only started playing when we went 2-0 down. It also looks like they don't give a crap at times and none of them seemed that disapointed about going out. They probably want to get home to the WAGs and have a nice break until the new season.

We need to get Harry Redknapp or Roy Hodgson in charge. We need someone who can speak English and get the defenders properly drilled. We also need a defensive midfielder who will cover for full backs when they go forward. Barry is plainly shite in that position. I'm sure an English manager would get more out of the players and get them playing without nerves. Capello seems way too intense. We need someone who understands the English mentality.

[Biff]

I forgot to congratulate the Germans, you played well but we were so bad we made you look good!

[Effendi(GER)]

Thx Biff, i was surprised tbh by the score. But i think England needs a new start, a new generation that has to come up. I dunno if its really all the pastapoofs fault.

[Biff]

Yeah, I think it was a mistake to leave out Walcott, he seems to play without nerves and is too young to give a crap. The trouble is we don't have many good young players. Milner was brought in but all he can do is run around like a bull in a china shop and cross as soon as possible. You need more to your game at this level. Joe Cole has more to his game but was hardly used by Capello.

I think the right coach could get more out of the current squad. Today for instance, Crouch should have been brought on, not fecking Heskey. Mertesacker was clearing everything but Crouch would have caused him problems. We also could have done with pace on one of the wings which I reckon would have worked well against Germany. I'd have had Cole and SWP with them swapping wings occasionally. You've also got to question the full backs which has to be down to the coach. Pretty much every England game Johnson or Cole come in too close to the centre and leave acres of space. We need a proper solid back four who work in unison. At all times we should have at least 3 at the back, if one full back goes forward the other should stay back. Today we had two players back to defend that break when we fecked up the free kick and one of them was Gareth Barry. Glenn Johnson should have been in the right back position to mark Ozil.

Anyway, good luck to Germany against the Argies.

[Ronaldinosa]

i lay the blame totally at the feet of the players who , as far as ive seen , have put in absolutely no effort into this World Cup . Their attitude disgraces the Three Lions shirt . They believe in their own press far too much , they are all overpaid by the clubs they represent and dont give a toss about representing their country . Let me start at the beginning , Our goalkeeper comes from the worst side in the premiership and has a history of errors . Ashley Cole is a very good defender , but he seems to think he can take on the world and needs to concentrate on his first priority . John Terry opened his mouth and is a disgrace , hes not captain and was exposed time and time again . Upson is not an international class defender , another too easily exposed . Johnson isnt an international defender , again exposed easily . Milner is not an effective winger , if he cant get in the side in his natural position then he shoulndt play - same goes for Gerrard . Lampard spends too much time ball watching and doesnt drive forwards as he does for Chelsea . If he cant do it then get someone else who will . Barry is a crab footballer , Donkey work and sideways passing , waste of a midfielder position . Rooney was unfit and shouldnt have played . Defoe worked hard but we need a supplier or goalscorer , he was neither .
SWP isnt a premiership quality player let alone world stage , totally where he is today because of who his father is . Heskey is a donkey plain and simple . Crouch is ok for minow matches but 'big' teams find him easy to accomodate . Cant understand why Joe Cole didnt play , especially as hes by far our most creative player .
We may as well promote from the U21 who at least got to the final of their tournament , young players who can be moulded to play how we need to play , not big names who think they just have to turn up .
People will blame the officials for missing the Lampard 'goal ' , boo hoo get over it , mistakes happen in matches , controversies are part and parcel of the game .

[Biff]

I agree that most of our players are over rated but we should have the beating of Germany, or at least not lose 4-1 (4-2!). It's poor defensive positioning that cost us. If Rafa was in charge there's no way we would have been so sparse at the back to be countered so easily, this is down to the manager. Playing Milner, Heskey etc is also the manager's fault. It's time we had an English manager who will mould a team for the future and get the players drilled in a specific system suited to English players. When you have hardly any games you need to stick to a simple system everyone can just walk into easily. The main thing is to have a proper back four working properly. I reckon the players would respond better to someone like Harry Redknapp and you can bet that he would pick our best players and not leave Joe Cole languishing on the bench.

[Ronaldinosa]

This is exactly the same argument that we have had with all the previous managers . Players are picked not on form but because of who they are and what they could potentially do . I've always said we need to pick form players in their own positions , if Gerrard and Lampard have to compete for one place then so be it , don't accommodate one elsewhere so we don't have a real winger . I strongly believe in the George Graham philosophy , we build from the back making us secure and hard to beat . Our midfield MUST keep the ball at all times , Hollywood passing is unacceptable . We play with a main striker and a support striker . And players who cause controversy off the pitch simply don't get selected . All places are up for grabs now , let's get the passion for the shirt back . Starting by retiring those thirty or over , they have had their chance , now is the time to build for four years time .

[skybluearmy]

Congratulations to Germany, as big as our rivalry is there's no doubting that the better team won with a much more modern style of football, full credit to them.

Where to start with England? Everything Biff and Ron say is pretty much spot on, in fact everyone in the country seems to be of the same opinion. This bunch of players are quite simply over rated, over paid and not passionate/motivated enough about playing for their country. For the majority of them club football is the be all and end all. Thats probably a bit easier to accept if you are a supporter of one of our big clubs but for someone in my boat following England is our best chance of following a decent side. I'd much rather see the side full of average players who try their hardest and would sweat blood to play for England, someone like Kevin davies would have ran himself into the ground yesterday despite him not have 20% of Rooneys ability, I'd rather see that.

What really struck me yesterday was how little mobility our players had, players such as Upson, Terry, Lampard, Barry are so unathletic its untrue. Compare them against the likes of Ozil and Muller who look a stone or two lighter and more mobile.

Its back to the drawing board again, its time for an English manager and I'd be happy with either Hodgson or Redknapp and time to get players in such as Johnson, Parker, Rodwell, Wilshere blardy blar. The other thing that would help massively would be if our top clubs played some of our U21 players on a regular basis and stopped turning to foreign shores for their players. A large proportion of that Germany side yesterday beat England in the U21 final a year ago, most of the German side now play regularly for their club side but how many of our team from that day do? And if they do only 1 was picked for our full squad this summer, Milner. Martin Cranie played centre back in that final and can't even get a game regularly for Coventry, says it all really.

Now, if there was a World Cup competition for roasting and double teaming 17 year olds along with having very big cars with vulgar accessories I reckon we'd walk it. At least our players might be quite passionate in that particular competition.

[skybluearmy]

And breathe............

[skybluearmy]

Oh and did anyone see King and Ashley Cole pi55ing themselves laughing last night as they got off the plane? I'd have smashed my tv in if I hadn't just bought it, disgraceful. Show some respect you morons.

[skybluearmy]

Found this article from 2008, how many of these actually now look like turning into top players, maybe 2?

From 2008.


Top 10 future England stars By ANDREW HAIGH

JACK WILSHERE stole the show in Arsenal's Carling Cup thumping of Wigan last week.


The 16-year-old starlet is the latest in a long line of English prodigies who have been tipped for greatness.

His Gunners team-mate Theo Walcott and Manchester United ace Wayne Rooney made the step up to become England internationals before they were 18.


We have picked the 10 players who are 18 or under that we think have the best chance of making it.


No. 10 Nathan Delfouneso, Aston Villa, 17, striker

One of the most exciting young strikers in English football. His goalscoring record at reserve level earned him his spot on the bench for Villa's first team just days after he had turned 17 and boss Martin O'Neill has rewarded him with three appearances so far this season. Also highly-rated by England's youth coaches.

No 9. Victor Moses, Crystal Palace, 18, midfielder or striker

Already has nearly 30 first team matches under his belt before his 18th birthday. Fast, strong and naturally skilful, the Nigerian-born winger-cum-striker has already impressed for England Under-19s. Palace boss Neil Warnock pulled off a huge coup by fending off interest from Arsenal to tie him down to a four-year deal in the summer.


No 8. Jose Baxter, Everton, 16, striker

Wayne Rooney, James Vaughan, now Jose Baxter. Everton's production line of top-class strikers does not seem to be slowing up. Baxter, like Jack Rodwell (below), made his first few Everton appearances at the start of the season. Has a similar style to Rooney, with the ability to change a game with a piece of brilliance.

No7. John Bostock, Tottenham, 16, midfielder

Controversially signed for Spurs in the summer from Crystal Palace for £700,000. Palace chairman Simon Jordan rated him at £5million and was fuming when he left and the fee was decided by a tribunal. He was right to be annoyed - Bostock has 18 Under-17 caps and made his debut as Spurs' youngest ever player earlier this month.

No 6. Joe Mattock, Leicester, 18, defender

The left-back is the second-youngest player to become an Under-21 international behind Theo Walcott. Huge potential and already has bags of first team experience with Leicester in League One. Solid defensively and comfortable going forward.

No 5. Danny Welbeck, Manchester United, 18, striker

Scored his first ever goal as a sub against Stoke at the weekend. The 30-yard strike showed just exactly what he is capable of. The lanky frontman has featured on the bench for United in the past few months and will be challenging Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tevez and Dimitar Berbatov for a starting spot soon.

No 4. Jack Rodwell, Everton, 17, defender or midfielder

Made the step up to Everton's first team after boss David Moyes struggled to strengthen his squad in the summer. Has seen his chances reduced recently but is expected to form the backbone of the Toffees' side for years to come. A versatile player who is comfortable at centre back or in midfield.

No. 3 Fabian Delph, Leeds, 18, midfielder

Learning his trade in League One with Leeds and is developing into a top prospect. England Under-21 boss Stuart Pearce recognised his achievements by calling him up. Scouts from every Premier League club have watched him but the Yorkshire club are adamant the £6million-rated starlet is going nowhere.

No 2. Freddie Sears, West Ham, 18, striker

A prolific scorer for West Ham's reserve side, netting 25 goals in 24 games last season. Had his big break as a sub against Blackburn in March when he headed the winner. Has become a regular starter for the Hammers under new boss Gianfranco Zola. A classy finisher and intelligent runner with pace to burn.

No1. Jack Wilshere, Arsenal, 16, midfielder

What more can be said about him? Surely an England international in the making and that is after just a handful of games for the Gunners. Has the perfect manager to get the best out of him in Arsene Wenger, who has nurtured some of the top talents around. Can turn a game with a defence-splitting pass and has a terrific shot.

[Biff]

I didn't see that. I've tried to avoid all England coverage. You are right about lack of mobility though, some of our players looked really shite. The only real quality we have is Gerrard, Joe Cole and Rooney. Shame Rooney didn't show up.

Anyone want to buy an England shirt?

[skybluearmy]

David Blaine is today said to be furious that his record of 42 days doing feck all in a box has been broken by Wayne Rooney.

[Biff]

Saw this earlier and thought it was pretty apt.



There's still the odd muppet with them on their car.

[Biff]

World Cup 2010: Mueller blames England 'alpha males'

Germany's two-goal hero Thomas Mueller believes the "alpha-male" culture in the England team will hinder their chances of becoming successful.

Mueller scored twice for Germany in their 4-1 win over England on Sunday in the last-16 stage of the World Cup.

"It is difficult to have so many 'alpha males' and have them row in the same direction," said the 20-year-old.

"You don't only need chiefs, you also need a few Indians. You need people who are willing to do the hard work."

He added: "It may be a problem with England that players are simply not mentally prepared to go that extra mile for their team-mates."

Meanwhile, Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger said that England were "killed by their own impatience" during their defeat to Germany.

The Frenchman believes England should have used their experience to stop Germany's counter-attacking threat.

England pulled the score back to 2-1 and had a goal disallowed but were hit on the break when chasing an equaliser.

"England had taken over the game and I think they were killed by their impatience," Wenger told Arsenal's website.

"They came back in the second half to 2-1 and they controlled the game.

"What made me sad was that, with the experience they had, they were caught. It was free-kick for England, goal for Germany.

"You do what they did with five minutes to go OK but not with 25 minutes left."

606: DEBATE
The Germans play a style of physical, go-forward football that we can relate to but they also have midfield players capable of holding on to the ball

johnb

England's disappointing performances in the tournament in South Africa has led to criticism of manager Fabio Capello, the players, the structure of the Premier League as well as increasing calls for a winter break.

However, Wenger believes the levels of expectation weighed heavily on the England camp.

"Many teams start slow in the group stage," he said.

"I remember in 2006, France were horrible in the group stage but they found momentum in the quarter-final and semi-final because they had no pressure any more.

"England suffered under pressure. They did not look sharp.

"Also England did not seem to be at the level to use their main strength - the huge pace they put in the game.

"Was that physical fatigue or a mental reason? I do not know but you never found the sense of English football in there."